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Cake day: June 5th, 2023

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  • I think that makes a weird sort of sense. I mean, if you’re gonna pay 1 person 3x what you pay the others you kinda expect them to shoulder more of the burden. Same goes for Doctors in general and Air Traffic Controllers, the barrier to entry is exceptionally high, the pay is high to match, but the expectations are even higher

    I can’t speak to the union bit, but I would say most aren’t in a Union in the US since most of the US doesn’t have Unions. If you’re in an area that has them then maybe they get a better deal.



  • I think that’s the thing, it’s not that amazingly well paid. Considering it only requires a high school diploma and a certificate it pays well, but overall you’re probably only making around $38-55k per year. I did find some exceptions such as the upper end of NYC techs making $65k, but even LA had a high end of $55k. Maybe the salary data I saw was wrong, but that’s not particularly well paying.

    The high paying job is the Pharmacist who is probably pulling in $120-160k, but the tech is doing all the real work.

    This guy probably looks at it like they aren’t conventionally attractive (which isn’t true) and they aren’t making stupid high salaries.


  • It’s certainly a respectable job, but it’s not an overly well paid job which is probably that guys quibble. As with many jobs it depends on the specifics, but it seems like the job pays around $38-55k depending on where you live. It looks like some areas can get a bit higher (NYC had some data indicating $65k/year).

    For a job that only requires a high school diploma and a certification that’s not bad, it’s just not particularly good either. If you have two people making roughly that amount it’s probably good enough to live comfortably, but not live very well.

    It’s the Andrew Tate mentality where the only acceptable partner is either an “Alpha” making $10 million a year and is conventionally attractive or doesn’t work at all and is even more conventionally attractive.









  • Knightfox@lemmy.onetoMemes@lemmy.mlHonestly
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    6 months ago

    I took some time in thinking about your response, I want you to know that. That said, “There’s lots of places in the US where cops are paid significantly above median wages for the region as their base pay,” doesn’t mean much in the context of my original statement. My original statement said very much the same in fact. Cops, on paper, get paid above average and have tons of opportunity for overtime. What your response misses is the danger associated and the expectation of overtime.

    It’s one thing when you can have unlimited overtime and another when you are expected to take unlimited overtime. There is also a disconnect when that overtime comes with an expectation of being shot and killed. With those expectations it’s no surprise that police are the largest portion of a city government. If you have a group of people that you expect to work long hours, work extra overtime, meet the municipality’s needs, and potentially die in their duty, then they should command a large portion of the budget.

    If you don’t want to pay people to do these things then you can’t be upset that they don’t do those things. You get the cops that you pay for. I’ll be the first to say Fuck the Police, but I’ll also be the first to say we get the Police we pay for.



  • Knightfox@lemmy.onetoMemes@lemmy.mlHonestly
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    6 months ago

    You’re right though, being a police officer comes with an expectation that doesn’t match your pay. If you’re on the subway, there is a police officer in uniform standing nearby, and a guy attacks you, the expectation is that the cop would save you. However, in 2011 Maksin Gelman had a stabbing spree in NYC that culminated in an attack on Joseph Lozito. The attack occurred on a subway, with Lozito being stabbed in the head and face while police watched from the conductor’s booth. It wasn’t until Lozito had wrestled his assailant to the ground and detained him that the police helped him.

    Lozito sued the NYPD for not helping him and the judge decided that it wasn’t the police’s duty to save his life. On the day of the assault the police didn’t even perform first aid on Lozito, it was another subway goer that save his life.

    EDIT: I’ll be the first one to say fuck the police, but if you want actually good police then the first step is to pay them to match what you expect of them or else you’ll end up with a bunch of gun toting assholes who won’t do shit.


  • Knightfox@lemmy.onetoMemes@lemmy.mlHonestly
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    6 months ago

    Of the responses I have gotten I feel like you have the closest response to the truth. Having good cops comes down to trust. If we had a police force of non-opportunistic saints who will go through anything to do the right thing then we might have something which meets the public’s expectation of the police. Short of that they are people who put their own lives and well being above that of the public. Police aren’t out there to save you, they aren’t really out there to stop crimes. They are out there to charge people with committing crimes. I feel like some understanding should be out there for the public though, police aren’t there to save you, they are there to charge people for having committed a crime. Ideally they will stop a crime as it is occurring or by their presence prevent a crime from occurring, but if you think the Police are there to save you then you’re wrong.

    That’s the average scenario. That’s the Uvalde cop looking on as a school shooting occurs. The idea of a cop running into a school shooting is the “BEST” scenario.

    Unfortunately the norm for police is far less than that, because the pay doesn’t incentivize better people to want to be police. It comes down to those the factors: pay, work life balance, and danger. Pick 2 of 3, low danger, high wages, or good work life balance.


  • Knightfox@lemmy.onetoMemes@lemmy.mlHonestly
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    6 months ago

    There is a difference in danger, Construction tends to be one of the most dangerous jobs there is, but getting injured in a construction accident is fundamentally different from getting shot as a cop. Other jobs might be more “dangerous,” but the nature of the danger is pretty important.


  • Knightfox@lemmy.onetoMemes@lemmy.mlHonestly
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    6 months ago

    Yeah, but that comes back to the same point where pay incentivizes bad cops. It’s not quite that clear cut, but it’s not far from the truth. I don’t begrudge someone working a second job, and assuming we’re talking about good cops not getting kickbacks, police shouldn’t have to work two jobs to make ends meet.


  • Knightfox@lemmy.onetoMemes@lemmy.mlHonestly
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    6 months ago

    I see why you thought that’s what I meant, but immediately following that I list several other potential solutions to overall bad policing. You can certainly defund the police, aka stop outfitting them with weapons of war, but it will not solve the fundamental problem of hiring bad candidates to make bad cops.


  • Knightfox@lemmy.onetoMemes@lemmy.mlHonestly
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    6 months ago

    This may not apply everywhere in the US, but my understanding is that most cops aren’t paid terribly well. Perhaps it’s ok if compared to a standard job, but when you account for the danger, required over time, and work schedule it becomes very not worth it.

    A buddy of mine is a true believer type, he signed up to be a cop, went through a year of training and another year paired with another cop. PreCovid starting pay was $40k, 12 hr work schedule and every 28 days it flipped (so 28 days day shift followed by 28 days of night shift). One day he gets a call and his boss had switched him to a different district with 3x the commute without any communication. Finally a buddy of his caught a bullet in the head (and lived) from some guy who was on drugs and stole a car. He said he thought about it and for the money it wasn’t worth the emotional cost.

    Strangely the problem with underfunding cops is who the fuck wants to be a cop? Yeah, after 25 years and multiple promotions you might make an ok or even good salary, but being a new cop is absolutely shit. In a system where the pay isn’t good, the hours are shit, and the risk to your life is high, who wants to be a cop?

    The answer is either self sacrificing good guys or people who get a power trip on carrying a gun and using it. Add to it that this system is perpetuated by the type of people who pursue the job you end up with a whole department full of the type who hire these types.

    So while you can defund the police, you can send them through training, you can institute new policy, but if you don’t attract a better quality of person then you’re gonna have the same problem over and over again.

    Theoretically you could make the hours better (but that will require hiring more police to cover the same amount), you could reduce the danger (similar to London banning guns so beat cops don’t carry them either), or you can pay them more.


  • Knightfox@lemmy.onetomemes@lemmy.worldHe's ready for anything
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    6 months ago

    … So was my great grandfather, but he was an old school Southern Democrat, he even voted straight ticket. I’d be willing to bet he wouldn’t be fond of modern Democrats.

    People forget that the Democrats of the early 1900s aren’t the same as today. Remember that Republicans are the party of Lincoln, but I wouldn’t be surprised if modern Republicans wanted to bring back slavery.