Well Half-Life Alyx uses forward rendering and has a brilliant MSAA implementation. It is optimised because it needs to be. You cannot have this thing chugging along with 30Hz at full HD. You need 4K or more running at 90Hz or more. So they invested a good amount of time into making sure it functions properly before releasing it.
Also, foliage really doesn’t need to be fixed, if it is done properly. Example, 20 year old games like Halo 3 or the Crysis games.
I take issue with modern games because why the hell are they forgetting lessons of the past? Crysis and Halo 3 for example are 20 years old and they have better looking foliage than most modern games because they know what to do to avoid pop-in and noise. Yes, modern games have more foliage, because more VRAM, but older games have better looking foliage, due to the lack of wonky artifacts, in my opinion. And also, the proprietary TAA implementations, or TSR implementations, in my experience, add a ton of input latency, which makes the game feel worse. MSAA, because it uses geometry information to build AA, enhances image quality significantly and gives a better looking and more coherent picture than any other implementation of anti-aliasing, including proprietary TSR. Also, MSAA isn’t my religion, I realise that there are some aspects where TAA and TSR can be useful, but problem is, in modern games it gets abused because devs can then say “we’ll just do the absolute minimum, make sure the game executes on hardware at HD 30 Hz, and then we’ll just let the magic TSR and frame generation handle the rest”.
Well, the problem with MSAA is that it needs to have good geometry in the first place if quad overdraw is complete shit because no one bothered to make tessellation or proper LOD models and let just some automatic tool handle everything without any supervision, then yes, it will be horrible. If devs say, “it makes my geometry timing horrible”, then we already know that their geometries are utter rubbish.
Also a brilliant example of why I’m bothered by that is Payday 3 because it looks like a late PS3 game and runs like complete trash and has a massive CPU bottleneck, no matter what you do, even if you doctor around with the engine settings themselves.
Also, if your game can’t look decent without any kind of DLSS or AA, you need to stop and fix that before relying on AA. Personally, I can’t stand the blurriness of any kind of AA, including DLSS, and almost always turn it off.
Games are not still images and our brains are super good at motion interpolation between discrete pixels. To me, it always looks sharper and clearer and truer to life (I have very good vision irl, so blur is unwelcome, and TAA is just… Why would you want that outside of being an effect like being drunk or stunned?).
Amen. But in all honesty, TAA has its place for correcting some artifacts, with clouds for example, where blur really doesn’t matter. See the minecraft comment above, that’s interesting.
Ah I found it. Interesting that it’s a partial/combo, but no thanks. I’ll absolutely try it, but I feel like I may have already seen stuff TAA partials that and it’s now just a smeary top-half of my camera/screen.
I’ve seen so many games use TAA and I stg, every time, I wish I could turn it off but a lot of newer games you either outright can’t, it’s totally locked to any advanced graphics, or you can turn it off but a ton of stuff totally breaks, like foliage… Which is such a bizarre and frustrating problem.
Okay then, but it still works. It is still hard to claim that Half-Life Alyx runs bad or looks bad. I can only judge from my perspective as a customer. Why do we use these weird, wonky, hacky solutions for deferred rendering if the other one can look just as good, run as good, but doesn’t need any of these workarounds?
I didn’t claim it doesn’t work. I claimed there’s a reason out of hundreds of releases, you have a singular example of a forward renderer.
Which means TAA will keep being a problem, so my remark that DLSS is miles ahead applies to pretty much all games, even if once in a blue moon you find an exception.
Well Half-Life Alyx uses forward rendering and has a brilliant MSAA implementation. It is optimised because it needs to be. You cannot have this thing chugging along with 30Hz at full HD. You need 4K or more running at 90Hz or more. So they invested a good amount of time into making sure it functions properly before releasing it.
Also, foliage really doesn’t need to be fixed, if it is done properly. Example, 20 year old games like Halo 3 or the Crysis games.
I take issue with modern games because why the hell are they forgetting lessons of the past? Crysis and Halo 3 for example are 20 years old and they have better looking foliage than most modern games because they know what to do to avoid pop-in and noise. Yes, modern games have more foliage, because more VRAM, but older games have better looking foliage, due to the lack of wonky artifacts, in my opinion. And also, the proprietary TAA implementations, or TSR implementations, in my experience, add a ton of input latency, which makes the game feel worse. MSAA, because it uses geometry information to build AA, enhances image quality significantly and gives a better looking and more coherent picture than any other implementation of anti-aliasing, including proprietary TSR. Also, MSAA isn’t my religion, I realise that there are some aspects where TAA and TSR can be useful, but problem is, in modern games it gets abused because devs can then say “we’ll just do the absolute minimum, make sure the game executes on hardware at HD 30 Hz, and then we’ll just let the magic TSR and frame generation handle the rest”.
Well, the problem with MSAA is that it needs to have good geometry in the first place if quad overdraw is complete shit because no one bothered to make tessellation or proper LOD models and let just some automatic tool handle everything without any supervision, then yes, it will be horrible. If devs say, “it makes my geometry timing horrible”, then we already know that their geometries are utter rubbish.
Also a brilliant example of why I’m bothered by that is Payday 3 because it looks like a late PS3 game and runs like complete trash and has a massive CPU bottleneck, no matter what you do, even if you doctor around with the engine settings themselves.
This guy games.
Also, if your game can’t look decent without any kind of DLSS or AA, you need to stop and fix that before relying on AA. Personally, I can’t stand the blurriness of any kind of AA, including DLSS, and almost always turn it off.
Games are not still images and our brains are super good at motion interpolation between discrete pixels. To me, it always looks sharper and clearer and truer to life (I have very good vision irl, so blur is unwelcome, and TAA is just… Why would you want that outside of being an effect like being drunk or stunned?).
Fuck TAA. 100%, forever.
Amen. But in all honesty, TAA has its place for correcting some artifacts, with clouds for example, where blur really doesn’t matter. See the minecraft comment above, that’s interesting.
Edit: typo.
Ah I found it. Interesting that it’s a partial/combo, but no thanks. I’ll absolutely try it, but I feel like I may have already seen stuff TAA partials that and it’s now just a smeary top-half of my camera/screen.
I’ve seen so many games use TAA and I stg, every time, I wish I could turn it off but a lot of newer games you either outright can’t, it’s totally locked to any advanced graphics, or you can turn it off but a ton of stuff totally breaks, like foliage… Which is such a bizarre and frustrating problem.
There’s a reason you had to fish for an exception to find a modern game with a forward rendering engine.
Okay then, but it still works. It is still hard to claim that Half-Life Alyx runs bad or looks bad. I can only judge from my perspective as a customer. Why do we use these weird, wonky, hacky solutions for deferred rendering if the other one can look just as good, run as good, but doesn’t need any of these workarounds?
I didn’t claim it doesn’t work. I claimed there’s a reason out of hundreds of releases, you have a singular example of a forward renderer.
Which means TAA will keep being a problem, so my remark that DLSS is miles ahead applies to pretty much all games, even if once in a blue moon you find an exception.
FWIW it’s more than an exception IMHO it’s one of the very best game I played in my life. It’s more than a game, it’s an experience. I was in City 17.