Bestfriends.org advocates for pitbull acceptance providing an opinion here, and I don’t see the actual data that says the rates of dog attacks remained the same when staffy/bully/pit ownership is reduced.
If what you hypothesize is true, we should expect to see the overall rate of dog attacks stay the same, while proportionally other breeds become responsible for more of the total sum of dog attacks. Have you found actual statistics to back this assertion up? Your links all point to the home page of the sites, rather than stats.
I didn’t put those links in there, that’s just Lemmy auto-linking. The full cited source has a bit more info, but it’s quite a rabbithole of sources tbh.
I found https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8730379/ which does have some hard stats, showing that a law enacted in 1991 did little to nothing to prevent bites, whilst also showing the most dangerous breeds bite about as much as other humans do.
This study seems to show that of 134 mammalian bites studied, about 73% were from dog bites both before and after the dangerous dogs act. I don’t have full access to the article but the abstract seems to imply that dangerous breed attacks represented a small percentage of the total bite treatments.
I’m not sure it can conclude that the rate of attacks overall stayed the same when dangerous breed ownership rates as a whole reduced. The conclusion seems to be that “dog bites are still a similar percentage of mammalian bites” without regard to the overall rate of dog ownership and the impact of the law on dangerous dog ownership rates specifically (but perhaps it is inside the study?)
One would expect that this sort of statistic would be easy to find if it were true, given the advocacy of bully-breed groups.
The study measures the totals before and after the ban. If the totals did not change, then one can reasonably conclude there was little to no effect (as that was the point of the ban; reduce bite attacks). The only way you could still justify the ban worked is if dog ownership increased after the ban, which seems unlikely (and iirc the study touches on that).
One would expect that this sort of statistic would be easy to find if it were true, given the advocacy of bully-breed groups.
I mean ultimately the burden of proof isn’t on them. There are some statistics that seem to support them. If thess BSL bans worked, one would expect evidence to show that they did, but that’s seemingly completely absent too. The vast majority of independent organisations seem to be against these bans.
If these bans worked, where are the statistics that show they do? What about the myriad of studies saying bite incidents are caused by neglect of the dog rather than breed?
But this study doesn’t say anything at all about the dog bite rate does it? It takes 134 mammalian bite victims and reports the percentage that came from dogs. I could be convinced by a study that showed a rate of dog bites of 13/100000 before an effective bully breed restriction and a rate within statistical significance after the restriction was in place.
I can’t really find clear (or free) statistics on this either way. However, it seems clear that any reduction in rate of ownership of dangerous breeds should reduce the overall bite rate. Is your hypothesis that by reducing ownership rate of a particular breed (bully breeds, in this case), other dangerous breeds:
Become more popular and continue to bite at the same rate
Do not increase in rate of ownership, yet bite more to keep the overall bite rate the same
?
If you mean #2, this is an extraordinary claim that doesn’t stand without evidence. If you mean #1, maybe you have a point, but hard to evaluate without access to the stats. If you mean #1, do you think a restriction on all dangerous breeds would reduce the overall bite rate? (Coincidentally, France’s restriction applies to all dangerous breeds)
The point is that there’s not really such a thing as a dangerous breed. There’s dangerous dog owners though, and that’s different. When you ban a breed, most of these owners will switch to a different breed (which inevitably rises in the dog bite statistics). That’s mostly what that study showed, despite the ban on dangerous breeds, there weren’t any fewer bite incidents.
it seems clear that any reduction in rate of ownership of dangerous breeds should reduce the overall bite rate
In theory, sure. But this assumes that certain breeds are inherently more dangerous, which is largely unproven. Most larger studies seem to dispute this.
(Coincidentally, France’s restriction applies to all dangerous breeds
France’s bite rate isn’t substantially lower than neighbouring countries that don’t have these bans. In practice, it seems these bans do little to nothing to reduce bites, which is an indicator that the breed isn’t the issue.
It is an extraordinary claim that so called non dangerous breeds become more dangerous when so called dangerous breeds are restricted. I don’t think you can compare bite rates across borders because access to care, statistic collection methodology, dog ownership culture, etc are all confounding factors.
Bestfriends.org advocates for pitbull acceptance providing an opinion here, and I don’t see the actual data that says the rates of dog attacks remained the same when staffy/bully/pit ownership is reduced.
If what you hypothesize is true, we should expect to see the overall rate of dog attacks stay the same, while proportionally other breeds become responsible for more of the total sum of dog attacks. Have you found actual statistics to back this assertion up? Your links all point to the home page of the sites, rather than stats.
I didn’t put those links in there, that’s just Lemmy auto-linking. The full cited source has a bit more info, but it’s quite a rabbithole of sources tbh.
I found https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8730379/ which does have some hard stats, showing that a law enacted in 1991 did little to nothing to prevent bites, whilst also showing the most dangerous breeds bite about as much as other humans do.
This study seems to show that of 134 mammalian bites studied, about 73% were from dog bites both before and after the dangerous dogs act. I don’t have full access to the article but the abstract seems to imply that dangerous breed attacks represented a small percentage of the total bite treatments.
I’m not sure it can conclude that the rate of attacks overall stayed the same when dangerous breed ownership rates as a whole reduced. The conclusion seems to be that “dog bites are still a similar percentage of mammalian bites” without regard to the overall rate of dog ownership and the impact of the law on dangerous dog ownership rates specifically (but perhaps it is inside the study?)
One would expect that this sort of statistic would be easy to find if it were true, given the advocacy of bully-breed groups.
The study measures the totals before and after the ban. If the totals did not change, then one can reasonably conclude there was little to no effect (as that was the point of the ban; reduce bite attacks). The only way you could still justify the ban worked is if dog ownership increased after the ban, which seems unlikely (and iirc the study touches on that).
I mean ultimately the burden of proof isn’t on them. There are some statistics that seem to support them. If thess BSL bans worked, one would expect evidence to show that they did, but that’s seemingly completely absent too. The vast majority of independent organisations seem to be against these bans.
If these bans worked, where are the statistics that show they do? What about the myriad of studies saying bite incidents are caused by neglect of the dog rather than breed?
But this study doesn’t say anything at all about the dog bite rate does it? It takes 134 mammalian bite victims and reports the percentage that came from dogs. I could be convinced by a study that showed a rate of dog bites of 13/100000 before an effective bully breed restriction and a rate within statistical significance after the restriction was in place.
I can’t really find clear (or free) statistics on this either way. However, it seems clear that any reduction in rate of ownership of dangerous breeds should reduce the overall bite rate. Is your hypothesis that by reducing ownership rate of a particular breed (bully breeds, in this case), other dangerous breeds:
Become more popular and continue to bite at the same rate
Do not increase in rate of ownership, yet bite more to keep the overall bite rate the same
?
If you mean #2, this is an extraordinary claim that doesn’t stand without evidence. If you mean #1, maybe you have a point, but hard to evaluate without access to the stats. If you mean #1, do you think a restriction on all dangerous breeds would reduce the overall bite rate? (Coincidentally, France’s restriction applies to all dangerous breeds)
The point is that there’s not really such a thing as a dangerous breed. There’s dangerous dog owners though, and that’s different. When you ban a breed, most of these owners will switch to a different breed (which inevitably rises in the dog bite statistics). That’s mostly what that study showed, despite the ban on dangerous breeds, there weren’t any fewer bite incidents.
In theory, sure. But this assumes that certain breeds are inherently more dangerous, which is largely unproven. Most larger studies seem to dispute this.
France’s bite rate isn’t substantially lower than neighbouring countries that don’t have these bans. In practice, it seems these bans do little to nothing to reduce bites, which is an indicator that the breed isn’t the issue.
It is an extraordinary claim that so called non dangerous breeds become more dangerous when so called dangerous breeds are restricted. I don’t think you can compare bite rates across borders because access to care, statistic collection methodology, dog ownership culture, etc are all confounding factors.
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