Those seem incompatible to me.

(UBI means Universal Basic Income, giving everyone a basic income, for free)

  • Sekrayray@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    The sad thing about UBI in places like the US is they further systematic change needs to happen prior to UBI being implemented.

    If you have UBI added on to our current capitalist hellscape (since UBI rates will be publicly known) landlords and corporations will just hike prices to make life cost just as much as UBI—therefore forcing people to work for any scrap above that. So essentially UBI will be fed back into corporations/the elite, who will also continue to make profit on the labor the lower class does to afford anything above basic necessities.

    • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      9 months ago

      who will also continue to make profit on the labor the lower class does to afford anything above basic necessities

      If someone can afford basic necessities, they aren’t going to choose to work three jobs at minimum wage where they are treated badly, forcing an improvement in pay/conditions to find any workers. As for setting prices arbitrarily, that isn’t actually possible except where a monopoly is held, the idea that supply and demand influences price is not a myth. Having money and the choice of how to spend it does actually give you additional agency and leverage, and UBI would serve as a form of redistribution if it is funded by taxes of some kind.

      • ZoopZeZoop@lemmy.world
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        9 months ago

        Except that landlords are coming together to set prices so that they can all set them high. I don’t remember what the group is called, but someone was discussing it a while back. Doesn’t have to be a monopoly if they’re conspiring, which is what is happening with so many consumer goods and services.

        • chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          9 months ago

          I’ve seen that stuff but it’s too much to assume that this kind of coordination is the controlling factor in housing prices, or most other prices. You do need a monopoly because there’s too much incentive for defecting from the conspiracy if the fixed price is too far away from what the market price would be. I think housing is expensive mainly because of supply being suppressed and wealth inequality, and UBI would begin to address the latter.

  • PostProcess@lemmy.world
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    9 months ago

    Studies in motivational theory have been around for years which generally agree that at a very basic level people need security first, not necessarily to motivate but to be in a position to be motivated. Repeatedly pay has been proven to be a poor motivator over time. By removing the basic insecurity that people face, you give them a chance to focus on actual motivating factors like job satisfaction, self-worth and realisation.

    • Eldritch@lemmy.world
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      9 months ago

      Absolutely. Security is the enemy of fear and capitalism. Fear as Frank Herbert put it, is the mind killer. If we have security, all of a sudden the horrendous business practices capitalism has been built on and motivated by. Sort of fall apart. Go to work in a soul crushing job, with a toxic environment, for too little pay? Why, when you could stay home and start your own business, maybe even become a better competitor. Or just wait for something better to come along.

      Fear is the tool of the powerful. Whether it’s fear of some group they tell you to fear. Or fearing them directly. Without fear, many of the crises we seem to constantly be juggling. Would find themselves solved. Humanity has the ability to feed and house everyone. Right now. The reason we don’t is that the wealthy and powerful would lose wealth and power. And we can’t have that.

  • Coasting0942@reddthat.com
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    9 months ago

    My issue with it is that you haven’t run trials with people min-maxing how to squeeze people for their UBI checks. As a start, just raising rent until it eats all the UBI

    • BorgDrone@lemmy.one
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      9 months ago

      As a start, just raising rent until it eats all the UBI

      You can’t just arbitrarily raise the rent to whatever you like.

        • BorgDrone@lemmy.one
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          9 months ago

          Landlords also have to comply with the law, which limits the height of the rent they can charge and the maximum yearly increase.

          • sorrybookbroke@sh.itjust.works
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            9 months ago

            With the absurd increases of rent globally, record profits for landlords, and massive amount of empty properties have these laws worked?

            If properties are seen as an investment, as they currently are, they must always increase in value at a greater rate than inflation. This means that, in order for investment properties to work, housing must always become more expensive. This increases rent and makes buying a home more impossible yearly. If they lower in price, then the investment fails. The cost of making housing accessible is the economy.

            The issue isn’t simply increasing rent arbitrarily this is a marathon. They’ll raise rent at a higher rate than workers accrue money as they currently are. This makes housing unaffordable. UBI is a band-aid solution that doesn’t fix the root issue.

            Even Adam Smith agreed landlordship was a poor idea in a capitalist market. Renters should accrue equity, or housing should become public.

      • bartolomeo@suppo.fi
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        9 months ago

        You must live in VENEZUELA or some other SOCIAMIST HELLHOLE!

        Americans have the freedom to literally arbitrarily raise the rent to whatever they like YEEEEEEHAW!