You asserted that models are trained on private data. You were unable to back up the assertion.

I am not interested in psychological or rhetorical tricks. I see no value in it. If you’re willing to have a rational, fact-based discussion, science-style, then I am willing to assume good faith until evidence to the contrary is apparent.

Yes. It’s easier said than done. I often find myself thinking, I could do more to make my country better.

But I am just too irritated by the selfishness and privilege on display. Just relocating to a nicer country is an option that 99% do not have. You need to be young and well-educated, or be relatively wealthy. Otherwise, a rich country will simply not have you.

At the same time, those who can just pick up and leave are the same people who are most able to change things for the better. Americans are not risking their lives by speaking up. The rule of law is mostly being followed. Democratically elected representatives hold power.

Freedom and life can be taken from us, but never honor. -Otto Wels, 1933, in the final session of the elected german parliament.

You’re ignorant of history and that’s a problem.

There were fewer than 500,000 jewish Germans in 1933. That’s less than 1% of the population.

The millions who were murdered were mainly citizens of Poland and the Soviet Union. If the nations of Western Europe had prepared themselves better for war and fought with more tenacity, millions would have lived.

The absolute disaster that the Wehrmacht inflicted on the Soviet Union is largely the result of Stalin’s defects. Dictators are bad; an obvious lesson. A less obvious lesson comes from the Generalplan Ost. The Nazis wanted to murder much of the population east of Germany; Poles, Czecks, Ukrainians, Belarusians, Russians, and others. Many tens of millions of individual human beings were to be killed, mainly through hunger. Then the territory was to be settled by Germans, That’s the whole Lebensraum thing.

Where should all these people have gone?

That’s why the Ukrainians today don’t have a choice. Putin wants to eradicate the ukrainian ethnicity. We know that. We don’t know how many people he is willing to murder; to physically eradicate. Would you take the chance?

In 1939, immediately before WW2 and the holocaust, the MS St. Louis sailed with 900 jewish refugees from Nazi Germany to Cuba. But Cuba refused to take them in, as it had just hardened its laws. The ship sailed to Canada and the USA, but they, too, refused. Something, something, race.

Eventually, the UK, France, Belgium, and the Netherlands took pity on these people and gave them shelter. Obviously, many of those on the continent were murdered in the Holocaust.

Where do you think 65 million US Latinos will go? They live in the US and they will die in the US. One way or the other.

Just a recent example. Of course they’re vague about what “public” means, but if you really believe they aren’t using all the photos, you’d be pretty naive in my eyes.

Ok. You can’t give an actual example, so you use emotional blackmail to discourage disagreement. Noted.

If that’s what you want to call conservative go ahead, although it’s not what I’d typically associate with that word.

It’s called Chesterton’s fence.

Not sure where you see the problem?

To cut right to the chase. The problem is your intellectual dishonesty. First, it’s privacy, then it’s intellectual property, then privacy again. You try the spiel about sticking it to the corporations. When that is debunked, inequality is fine. Now it’s about “intellectual workers”, as if any of the higher-ups would share the loot.

You don’t give a fuck about logic or reason. You’re just throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks. You’re working through a list of talking points without ever engaging your brain. A third world guy will do that for a dollar an hour.

And don’t tell me that you’re doing this for free. Doing free labor for billionaires so that billionaires can get some free money from the rest of us is the stupidest thing I ever heard of. Ahh. But I have heard of it.

Cut the histrionics. Americans aren’t being massacred. They are only asked to go to some minor inconvenience to uphold their country’s democracy.

The distance between Chicago and Las Vegas is greater than between Berlin and the Russian front line in Ukraine. Are Germans supposed to feel pity for you poor darlings?

Non-Muricans, what’s the thought on accepting US refugees?

Stand and fight, you cowards.

The murder of political enemies by the Nazis is usually not considered part of the Holocaust.

The Nazis created concentration camps to detain people immediately after they assumed power. The death camps in which millions were gassed were its own thing within that system.

The detainment concentration camps were for leftists and democrats. Then also people from the margins of society. The so-called “work-shy”; meaning people who had for whatever reason troubles functioning. It would have included Hitler if he hadn’t succeeded with that politics grift. Gay people, of course. Jehovah’s Witnesses because they were conscientious objectors. Of course, people were tortured and maltreated in these camps, too. But how bad it was very much depended on the status of the prisoner.

The first Holocaust killings are usually said to be the hospital patients who were victims of the Aktion T4 in September 1939 when the war started. Disabled people who needed care were murdered to free up resources for the war effort. One method was locking them in an idling truck and suffocating them with exhaust fumes.

I companies are training models on photos and texts posted only for your friends

Can you give me an example or two of such a model?

And yes of course I believe in intellectual property and copyright, if that was your question. They’re there for a reason,

Thanks for bringing us back there. That’s the classical conservative argument. It’s not wrong.

One thing you said earlier was: You can have limits on inequality by implementing rules.

So, how do such reforms stack up against your conservatism?

stealing.

Stealing is something you do with property. It’s not something you do with privacy.

So what do you mean by “personal privacy”? Most would consider stuff intentionally made public to be explicitly not private. What actually is the problem?

You obviously have strong feelings on intellectual property. What actually are your views on that?

You can have limits on inequality by implementing rules.

Ok. And how would these rules fare against your convictions on property?

Again, don’t treat me like an idiot. Lemmy is full of threads where people cheer on big corporations like Disney when they go to court. I get that you only care about your ideology and not whether Disney, Adobe, or any other of them profits. But that’s how it goes. Either you change your ideology or you accept what kind of world you are fighting for.

I’ve been saying that each person owns their data and have the right to decide what it can be used for.

Fair enough, but that’s a really fine point. You can do what you like with your property; use it, make it a gift, destroy it, give it to charity, … But in daily life of most people, property rights are all about money.

Your ideas demand a massive amount of free money for the likes of Disney. On a societal level, that’s basically it. I feel justified in ignoring a few people who have idiosyncratic plans.

ETA:

It’s a separate discussion but: that rich people own most of the assets has a lot to do with the fact they steal and use stolen resources to appropriate more resources. It’s parasitic and needs to stop.

No. Wealth inequality is an unavoidable part of having property. I can find a simulation for you, if you want.

So you’re not seeking rent. Good on ya, because no small artist would be getting any appreciable amount of money. The big bucks go to Disney, Adobe, Getty, and the likes of them.

What am I supposed to do with the information you’re giving me?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rent-seeking

I draw some quiet satisfaction from feeling that I’ve had a positive influence on the world. I really don’t understand why some are so outraged that they may have benefitted some stranger without payment.

Amazing how propaganda by the rich is so successful in making people believe it’s not them who are the parasites.

Look… You believe society should pay money to property owners. Who owns most of the property? Rich people. You have your ideology but don’t treat me like an idiot.

And some people will say that a fair society should give back to the King what those revolutionaries stole by creating republics everywhere. You think of your ideology as the one true definition of fairness, justice, and whatever. That’s just ordinary dogmatism.

As far as I’m concerned, society should be ordered to fulfill everyone’s material needs; food, shelter, health care, and such things. Otherwise, people should not be interfered with. They should be free to make the best of life. That is simply incompatible with rent-seeking.

Yes, I’m sure very few AI haters will be getting any rent personally. They are supporting rent-seeking by others. I’m sure many do so out of “principle”, or as it would be more commonly phrased, out of ideological dogmatism. I’m a left/liberal guy. I want a society that works for everybody.

Your gaslighting game is shit. Like Copyright lawsuits aren’t half the news being cheered by AI haters. Not a single privacy lawsuit in sight. How stupid do you think people are?

Rent seeking is long-established economic jargon. It doesn’t necessarily imply a landlord analogy. A landlord may not be extracting an economic rent within that definition.

The point is rent-seeking, not an analogy to landlords.

Is this some weak attempt at gaslighting? If you want to make a career out of this, you really need to up your game. I mean, can you imagine some think tank going: Landlords don’t want to profit from those apartments, they just want to avoid people squatting in them for free.