Incredible how fast you went from:
I don’t look down on others, rather prefer to help them instead. I try to be a good guy but I also make mistakes. I’m only human. But at least I’m doing the best I can.
to lazy personal attacks and reddit style smarm, when you realized you didn’t actually have a counter argument.
You just attack me based on your assumptions.
No, I’m calling out a behavior I disagree with
You are doing exactly what you are accusing me of: You act like you are better than me by making me a bad guy.
That’s not remotely what I was saying, please actually read what I said and make a real effort to understand what I meant.
If you think the EU isn’t a better place than the DPRK, you’re free to go there.
I think that we are explicitly talking about something bad the EU is doing. I do also think the DPRK is a much better place to live than Gaza, and the EU supports that. so maybe you should go to Gaza?
I do not expect certain things to happen in a free democracy
Well they do, so maybe you should recalibrate your expectations to be based on real life and not the good-guy/bad-guy fiction you apply, so you don’t end up looking at things the EU does and saying “this is something [bad guy country] does!” Also, hard to call it a free democracy when the people you murder overseas don’t’ get to vote, and all of your media is owned by right wing oligarchs.
I’m willing to fight for it and speak out.
Doesn’t seem like it, seems like you’re more interested in fighting foreigners.
I don’t feel like defending attacks based on your assumptions so I’m going to step out of this discussion.
So you can’t actually defend yourself but are too stubborn to admit it.
There aren’t just good and bad guys, the world is so much more complex than just black and white.
Correct, so maybe you should start actually acting like it, rather than splitting the world into the good guys (free democracies) and the bad guys (totalitarian regimes) and treating totalitarian policies of the good guys as some how being ontologically of the bad guy countries that had nothing to do with them.
though I already said we aren’t.
Then stop acting like you think you are.
But there are no good guys.
Then act like it.
I don’t look down on others, rather prefer to help them instead.
That sounds like you look down on them. Do you ever actually entertain the possiblity that anyone might be right outside of “west best” liberals?
I try to be a good guy but I also make mistakes
And will you actually change your behavior when your mistakes get pointed out? Or will you double down?
So I know we’re not he good guys
Do you? When you hear about some other country outside of the EU and the West doing something draconian do you find yourself saying “This is something you’d expect in the EU”? Or do you reserve that statement for the designated “bad guy countries”. I don’t think you see the EU as bad guys, I think you see them as "The Good Guys, who are not currently living up to the people they’re supposed to be. Because these labels aren’t based on what countries actually do, they’re based on a per-assigned ontology, where some countries are good and some are bad inherently, and if the former does bad that’s just them falling short of their true nature. So even when they do bad things, those bad things still remain somehow metaphysically of the bad guy country, like saying that a law in the EU is somehow “North Korean” in character.
So I do compare certain extreme proposals to countries where you’d expect certain things to happen
I ‘expect’ this kind of thing to happen in the EU, because it does, and it is. You’re once again acting like something being done by “good guy” countries is actually representative of other countries, and not of the EU.
We should always strive to do better.
Step one is to stop assuming you’re ontologically the good guys and that any bad things you do is actually just out of character and more like something they’d do in enemy countries.
But we also have a dictatorship inside the EU
Yeah, and most of the EU is actively supporting the most brutal regime on Earth in an active genocide. I reject the idea that the EU has a leg to stand on when it comes to accusing other countries of being totalitarian just because it reserves its totalitarian repression for people overseas.
Ah ok, so you’re just a racist.
You also said “Sounds like they were ‘good Germans’”
So your objection to the idea that your parents would have been good Germans is just “they were born to make late”?
I don’t even with the rest of your message. You know two things. How to argue in bad faith and intentionally misunderstand people.
I’ve been entirely good faith and haven’t intentionally misunderstood anything. You’re just launching personal attacks now because you don’t have a counter argument
Except it’s not what they’re doing. It’s what the EU is doing. Westerners just assume that they’re always “the good guys”, and whenever they do something bad the most they can muster up is “this is something 'the bad guys” would do!"
You’re looking at something being done by the EU and immediately pivot to attacking other countries
Warsaw ghetto was closed in 1943. The war was over in 1945. As I said, they were born in the late 40s.
Hence why I said “would have”.
They also know how to differentiate between Hamas and Palestinians.
Clearly not, given that Hamas aren’t a different species or people. Hamas is literally the government of Gaza, it is made up of Palestinians.
You are implying that Palestinians and Hamas are one and the same. Which they are not.
This is always just a lazy excuse to keep massacring Palestinians.
Hamas are terrorists. The Jews were not.
“They weren’t terrorists, they were freedoms fighters!”
You would have called the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto uprising terrorists.
Hamas did deserve a forceful reaction
You would have justified the destruction of the Warsaw ghetto in the same way.
Turns out, any time someone says they disagree with “both a sides” of a genocide, you don’t have to dig far to discover that they support the genocide
What does modern Russia have to do with anything?
OK, so you’re not a fan of what the fall of the USSR led to. I guess you’re just a big fan of the mass poverty it caused?
That’s indeed correct, it’s a huge problem
Remember that you were originally citing the electoral success of the Greens to evidence that Germany wasn’t all in support of the genocide. That doesn’t’ really work when you admit that the Greens are, in fact, in support of the genocide.
If someone who says “Israel has a right to defend itself”, some people (apparently including you) take that to mean they have a right to attack Gaza.
Yes, that’s because that’s what it was coined to mean, and overwhelmingly used to mean.
It’s just that this situation is so extremely complex, has been brewing for decades
Technically true of the Holocaust as well, but you still rightfully accuse anyone of saying so of trying to obfuscate a very clear case of right and wrong. The same applies to the Gaza genocide.
I assure you that for the vast majority of people, saving civilian lives on both sides is the top priority.
I assure you that this is not true; the lives of Palestinian civilians are very much not top priority. For many westerners, they are a negative priority.
nobody has a clue how to solve it
Yes, the Nazi’s said the same thing about the Jews. And then they came to the same solution that Israel has come to.
I find this “You can’t blame Germany for supporting genocide, because they’re guilty about the Holocaust!” defense kind of hard to believe. After all, Germany also committed genocide against the USSR, and yet “Russia delenda est” seems to be an extremely mainstream position among Germans currently.
It’s easy to criticize the West for not taking a stand against the genocide in Palestine
Actually we’re criticizing them for actively supporting the genocide.
we do not, and can not, understand what Germans (in general, there always exists some racist fascists in every country) have to overcome to take such a stand.
This is incredibly tone-deaf, given what people in Gaza are actually having to overcome.
So your parents would have been disgusted by both the actions of the Nazis and the Jews in the Warsaw ghetto. Sounds like they were ‘good Germans’
you’re being willfully cruel towards a population you’ve never encountered, towards a place you’ve never been.
No, that’s what Germany is doing towards Gaza.
The current center was extremely radical for most of human history. And if you think that centrist politics don’t need to be enforced then I would encourage you to pick up a history book.
The current center was extremely radical for most of human history. And if you think that centrist politics don’t need to be enforced then I would encourage you to pick up a history book.
(Europeans rather than Americans in this case, but you get the point.
Democracy is a core part of communism.
You’re a big fan of modern Russia then.
Horseshoe theory is bunk because, when you drill down, all it’s basically saying is that people who disagree with the tenets of liberal capitalism don’t respect the legitimacy of a system based on the tenets of liberal capitalism. It’s essentially a tautology, and not incitefull because liberal capitalists also don’t respect the legitimacy of systems that aren’t based on liberal capitalist tenets.
No, it’s based on what you said.
No, you’re just saying that because you don’t have an argument, so you’re just making false accusations against me to distract from that.
By definition a troll know there a troll, accusing someone of being a troll without realizing it is purely you trying to substitute personal attacks for arguments.
I’m not sure you know what pseudo science is…
Yes, because that would require you to provide an actual argument and not just personal attacks, which you can’t do.
You are the one rejecting reason and argument for personal attacks and smug dismissal.