It looks like they’re speedrunning to the finish line to get things over with as quickly as possible.
Since nothing is going to stand in their way, how can we make sure they are held accountable for generations to come?
Maybe we can have a day of remembrance for the Palestinians.
I’m afraid that once Israel has completed their genocide, the media cycle and influencers will ensure its never spoken about again.
How do we keep it fresh in people’s minds until the perpetrators and/or their offspring face justice?
We can’t. At least while the USA is a thing. The same way as Russia will stay unpunished for the atrocities in Ukraine.
C’est la vie.
Even if the US wasn’t a thing, punishing Zionists wouldn’t be possible without subduing Israel through a literal war. Something which is not often attempted.
At best, we’d have the half-ass ‘punishment’ levied on states like Taliban-ruled Afghanistan, Djibouti, and North Korea, wherein the primary punishment is “It’s slightly harder and more expensive for the elite to get their precious foreign luxuries.”
Don’t get me wrong, that’s better than nothing. It’s just…
Prevention is generally a more fruitful avenue than punishment, when it comes to international polities and ideologies even with just regional majorities.
The chance of seeing genocidal cunts swing, or even acknowledge their wrongdoing, are generally small. Even the worst genocide of modernity, the Holocaust, had only a relatively small number of Nazis punished, despite literally every major extant power agreeing on how horrific their behavior was, and quite literally destroying all military capacity for the Nazis to resist and occupying every inch of their territory.
At most, you might get a handful of them in international courts by internal politiking, like Slobodan Milošević, but even then we’re unlikely to see the fully ‘cathartic’ end we want. “My dad is a war criminal” will still be sung proudly.
What is your threshold for often?
The best way to punish them is to give Isreali left wingers and “out” which allows them a path back to normalcy so they can take political power and condition that with punishment of high ranking war criminals and a two state solution. But this cant really happen due to the current US admin.
People will fight to the death if they’re backed into a corner but they will throw a few people under the bus if given a path out.
But if by Zionists you mean anyone who wants isreal to exists then you are backing isrealis in to corner and guaranteeing the conflict continue to be played out.
When was the last time a country with a functioning military was overthrown by outside intervention?
I guess we can count Iraq, though that requires connecting the First Gulf War and the Second, since the First Gulf War is when the Iraqi military was last seriously functioning.
I think you overestimate the appetite of the Israeli left-wing for normalcy, a serious two-state solution, or punishing war criminals. Like I said, at best, you’ll get a handful of offenders from internal politiking. But the chance of there being some punishment for any significant percentage of the very large number of very active and intentional orchestrators of this genocide is… small. Zionism is unlikely to be meaningfully repulsed by anything but time, and that’s assuming a best-case-scenario that the problem doesn’t intensify.
Again, I consider that covered under my “Slobodan Milošević” scenario. Don’t get me wrong, seeing Bibi die in a prison cell would be based and hilarious. But even that would only be a drop of water in the ocean of blood.
By Zionists, I presumed it was meant those who see Israel’s existence as an explicitly Jewish apartheid state as core to its continuation. And as long as Israel remains Zionist in that sense, this shit will keep happening. Ethnostates are notoriously amiable to the whole lebensraum idea, regardless of whether it’s currently-occupied territory they’re looking at, or potentially occupied territory - or both.
Without US support, Israel’s existence in the region is precarious as hell. We might not fully invade enemies often, but the Arabs definitely have.
(Edit: I drifted into actual prognostication here, the following applies either way)
The petrostates will necessarily collapse or fundamentally change exist post-oil, and peace between ethnicities in the short or medium term is not a realistic prediction, at this point. In 50 years I’m sure the region will be unrecognisable. I have no clue how, exactly, or what kind of people will live there.
Probably robots or sapient crocodiles
That would be cool. I was more thinking Arabs vs. Jews vs. all abandoned vs. the Holy Republic of New America.
The days of massive Pan-Arab socialist coalitions are over, and even back when they were still a threat, Israel beat them off pretty handily without significant US support.
Threats to Israel at this point are largely not existential, and if they were changed to existential threats, further radicalization seems more likely than redress and reconciliation. Especially considering Israel’s nuclear program.
I’m not expecting zombie Nasser, but they’re stretched just fighting Lebanon and Gaza. I can’t rule out that they might nuke everyone else and rule the resulting wasteland (and then, yes, no ICJ trials), but I’m not sure it’d be that easy, either. And, they might have blown up some centrifuges, but the possibility of another nuclear player in the region isn’t gone.
Either way, the result isn’t the Middle East we know now. Even without removing the US from the equation, I’m not expecting the status quo to last.
My point isn’t that they’d glass the Middle East, my point is that the threat of even small-scale nuclear warfare is enough to ensure that Israel might be pushed back from imperialist projects, but never existentially threatened without massive internal disorder.
I would argue that the Levant is the least likely region of the Middle East to change with the coming decline in oil.
Yes, I think that’s kind of obvious. I don’t know if they produce oil at all. Uhh… doesn’t look like it. It’s all geographically connected, though.
Do you think internal disorder is unlikely? There’s broad disinterest in helping the Palestinians in any way, but Israeli society disagrees about nearly everything else.
I think disagreements in Israeli society are relatively weak insofar as they all adhere to a common vision of Israel as a Jewish apartheid state. As long as there’s that to unite them - and make no mistake, at BEST 37/120 Knesset seats are held by non-Zionist parties, and more realistically, 14/120 - any crisis will bring together Israeli society in defense of that core existential concern.
Political disputes will continue, to very strong degrees. But there isn’t going to be some mass defection from the core existential idea of Israel or Israeli sovereignty, including over its hypermilitarized state.
No matter how much it last no occupation live forever.
Uh, many occupations have done so, simply by genociding everyone of the ‘wrong’ ethnicity in the area.
‘Good’ doesn’t always win. The world is not inherently just.