The data is coming from the world’s largest democracy perception study, published by the Alliance of Democracies Foundation (a Danish-based non-profit organisation).
The data is coming from the world’s largest democracy perception study, published by the Alliance of Democracies Foundation (a Danish-based non-profit organisation).
In my country I could live without working and still be in pretty good health conditions after years, if I would like to.
Is that possible in China?
Because my country is the average “western” country and I consider it still pretty far from a democratic utopia.
The average “western” country depends on the spoils of Imperialism to subsidize costs, ie social safety nets and lower prices of commodities through expropriating vast amounts of wealth from the Global South. China doesn’t do that, its own development and safety nets come from their own labor and production. Very different circumstances.
Hm… Yes, the famous Polish Colonies spanning half the India, some of Africa and Kamchatka.
China for the past 20 years has been mining Africa like crazy. I don’t see that wealth staying with African people, but moving to China and giving it monetary and political power.
Poland isn’t the “average Western country,” but it does depend on the same system of super exploitation of the Global South.
China is not imperializing Africa. China needs a lot of raw materials found in African countries, but it doesn’t keep African countries dependent on China nor does China enforce economic control on African countries. Both sides benefit. See here, China does not meet the definition of Imperialism.
I’m from Poland.
The source you quoted says that USSR wasn’t imperialistic.
Polish economy during occupation by USSR was drained, we were forced to send goods to the Mother Russia like crazy, without compensation. We had local shortages, so that Moska could benefit. If that’s not imperialistic exploitation to you, we have nothing to talk about, because you’re crazy.
The USSR was not Imperialist, see again:
Users like @PolandIsAStateOfMind@lemmy.ml can offer more insight on Poland as it related to the USSR, but to claim that the USSR was Imperialist is wrong. Calling me “crazy” for having consistency is just a way to avoid the original subject, which was your claim that the PRC is Imperializing Africa, which is also wrong. Now that you were caught out, you pivot to another direction hoping you can coast by on being Polish, when I’ve spoken to other Polish users and done study on my own that leads me to disagree with you.
If the argument you’re making is that Poland wasn’t exploited by USSR, because USSR wasn’t exporting capital, but goods, then that’s a strawman at best. Export of goods by the prices dictated by USSR (at 10% of value at the time), in amounts dictated by USSR, isn’t an
export of capital? Imperialistic country is a country that has colonies. Colony is a territory exploited by the “owning” country. Trying to make distinctions in that paradigm is pointless at best, malicious at worst.I pivoted the discussion to Poland (PRL) because the source you quoted blatantly LIED about it. If it’s blatantly lying about USSR, why would I trust anything else whitewashing other countries?
In 1956, when First Secretary of the Polish United Workers’ Party Gomułka was summoned to Moscow, he made some secret notes (that are now public) counting what infrastructure did Moscow stole (as in - took apart, moved to USSR) from Poland (by 1956!):
Source - Rolicki “Gierek”, pages 110-120 summarize Gomułka notes (Rolicki is a very pro-PRL historian).
Rolicki? Janusz Rolicki? The same guy who attacked PRL since he was spurned after his hissy fit in 1980 and later wrote to a far right tabloids like Fakt and Uważam Rze where he was the redaction colleague with scum like Ziemkiewicz? The same Rolicki who accused Michnik and entire Gazeta Wyborcza to be “Kremlin agent”? Pro PRL? Hahahahahaha, what a joke.
Bruh i lived then and seen how entire publicist, artist and general inteligentsia class turn like little flags the moment PRL fall in show of opportunism like no other ever witnessed. You don’t trust anything such scum write. Especially after 1989 since then we live in a censored political bubble that even USA don’t have.
Rolicki published that book decades before he started selling himself for money to Republika. The critics were calling it not biography but hagiography of Gierek.
Hissy fit? Yeah, I don’t think highly of you if protesting stan wyjątkowy by leaving the party and being jobless for a few years you call a hissy fit. Please note that before that he was given orders from PRL (and not only for long work duration).
Heck, even recently he published a book giving a BJ to whole PRL (like 5 years ago).
No, Prolewiki did not lie about the USSR, nor about Imperialism. You are trying to invent a new definition of Imperialism in order to make your original claims correct now that they have been proven wrong. Further, the Polish People’s Republic saw great success from inclusion into the Soviet system. It was fraught with problems like nationalism conflicting with the overall internationalist Socialist economy, but despite that it saw dramatic improvements economically, as well as in metrics like life expectancy and literacy rates.
I am not sure what you mean by “stolen.” It doesn’t seem to me that a factory can be picked up and moved across state lines, nor does it elaborate on what happened with these and why. As the Poland People’s Republic was a part of a far more planned economy, it’s important to look at why these movements took place, and if we look at the linked article, Socialist Poland saw rapid economic development as being a part of the system.
Gomułka was at one point arrested for right-deviationist nationalism, which helps cement that this isn’t an unbiased report by any stretch. To my understanding, Poland’s history with nationalism made the PPR disjointed, as well as the fact that it didn’t truly have its own revolution, but was more folded into the Socialist system, and as such the right-wing nationalists fought against the Socialist system.
I recommend speaking to Polish communists about this, if you’re just going to denounce everything I say as lies.
So the wiki you quoted is the bible and any source saying otherwise is right-deviationism nationalism or otherwise anti socialist element. Or heresy.
Exactly this.
We don’t know, USSR didn’t tell us.
Wealth. Industry. Money.
Hahahaha. We would literally be better off getting the full restitution from Germany. Instead USSR took it too, and told us they will lend us about 15% of it to rebuild.
To be fair, some new technology from USSR was licensed to Poland, but it was expected that the goods will be paid as tribute (“Sold” to USSR at the value below production cost. Source: again, Rolicki pro-PRL historian).
Poland was given to USSR as tribute. We never had a revolution, nor did we want to join USSR. We were broken by Nazis and then finished off by Ruskich. Unless you count everybody as right wing nationalist, Polish people had enough bad history with Russia to not want to be under them.
But this is pointless. To you I’m right wing nationalist or something, to me you’re romanticising USSR, inventing “facts” left and right. You quote a form of wikipedia made by ???, I quote left-wing pro-PRL historian who remembers and read official documents.
Lol that must be true for some country somewhere, but China is not it, no matter how much even I would like it to be true.
It is true, though. The PRC’s economy is extrenely industrialized and focused on exporting commodities, western countries use financial domination and strategic underdevelopment of the Global South to get cheap commodities. The West doesn’t produce as much as it takes, China produces for itself and sells the excess to others.
In my country we produce for ourselves and sell the excess too… Still not even close to a socialist utopia though…
Every country exports and imports, that’s not what I’m talking about. Private monopoly Capital in western countries extends and carves out the value created in the Global South. The PRC is far more industrialized than any Western Country, it doesn’t engage in Imperialism. Here’s a good article on Imperialism.
Further, nobody said China was a Utopia. It’s a developing Socialist country, Socialism isn’t some holy status that makes all who live in it live magical lives, it’s a mode of production. China has a long way to go, but Socialism is why it has had the success it has so far.
I see, well, that means I must be already living in some kind of socialist utopia then. That’s nice!
No, you don’t, nobody does, there are no “utopias.” Further, Socialism is not the absence of Imperialism, it’s a mode of production where public ownership is the principle aspect of the economy, not private ownership. There are no Socialist western countries, and all countries we think of as the “west” participate in this system of Imperialism dominated by the US Empire.
Well if China is a socialist developing country and the living conditions are inferior than what i have here, this must be an even more advanced socialist society, basically an utopi.
Which other countries does China exploit?
Are you serious? China is an imperialist country like most others that are that big.
Tell me who they’ve exploited. Go on.
Africa.
China is mining Africa. They lend money to local governments, make them build infrastructure to mine natural resources, and then let the countries spiral into never ending debt.
One could argue that it’s money used to invest in local production, but the real cash is making stuff from raw resources (In China). Also the fact it’s China lending the money and taking mineral rights and infrastructure as collateral is, well, colonialism.
Examples: Kenya, Zambia.
Open a web browser, go to your preferred search engine and start documenting youself.
lmao, you literally can’t even name one
I can handle you being stupid, but do you really gotta be this lazy?
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Is Brazil imperialist? Is India imperialist? They are “that big”, no?
Brazil, yes. India, I’m not informed but my bet would be obviously yes, no way such a country hasn’t developed imperialist practices.
I think you’re using “Imperialism” to describe something fubdamentally and entirely different from what Socialists consider Imperialism to be. Would you mind explaining what you think Imperialism is?
They did: “imperialism is when big country”, not very surprising definition given their instance:
I consider imperialism putting your hands in someone else’s land, basically speaking.
What’s YOUR definition?
How the fuck Brazil is imperialist?
They are very confused.
Hey they taught me Brazil was a Portuguese colony, they can’t be bad guys too!!1!
If you’re not working to support your life, then someone else is.
Yes?
You couldn’t choose not to work in China, it’s still a pretty poor country and the majority need to work to live.
Those who can’t work are mostly well-supported by a combination of family support networks - far more highly valued in China than in the west - and government welfare systems. It’s part of the reason homeless people are so rare there for example.
And that doesn’t sound too me like a big different situation fron what we have, let alone a better one. Then how is the perception of what’s going on that different?
They’ve seen their own lives improve materially due to the actions of the state. They’ve seen the government respond to the wishes of the public.
I don’t really understand what point you’re trying to make.
My point is that our lives here have improved too, but still the sentiment isn’t that positive, rightfully so.
Also China isn’t a third world country, it’s a pretty big player in the global scale and yet the condition of his population are on par or lower than what you can find in the “west”.