It feels like the amount of both, divisive posts and ghoulish comments is rising again.

One could argue that the world has a lot of divisive stuff going on and lemmy just talks about it. But the way people post about stuff seems more oot and hateful than it has been in the past.

Not saying it is that but if I wanted to bring the Fediverse down or at least keep my customers from going there, I would sow this stuff as much as I can.

I’m blocking ghouls left right and center atm but if I ever asked a friend to join lemmy, I’d hate to think of what they would see that I dont anymore.

Do we need stronger moderation?

  • Maybe ban politics from c/memes?
  • Become a little more stringent on “dont be a jerk” rules in communities?

One thing that really bothers me is the collapsing “discourse”. Trying to mend fences and keep the conversation between sides going ime leads to nothing but downvotes and shitstorm.

I feel like a little more interaction (instead of intervention, at first) of the moderators would do wonders there.

Thanks for reading this rant. Have a nice day.

  • Stamets
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    773 months ago

    Politics is banned from c/memes@lemmy.world

    And speaking as a mod, report things. The vast majority of things I’ve dealt with as a mod were ones I saw myself or things friends sent on discord. People need to utilize the report function more often if they want moderation on things. We’re not psychic.

    As for being more stringent on the not being a dick rule, no. There’s a base level of civility we expect but if we start getting super stringent on what constitutes being a dick, that’s imposing moderator will on community and its what most of us left reddit to get away from.

    Lastly, it’s the Internet. Assholes exist everywhere. You are not going to escape it, ever, if you’re using public servers. It’s pretty much required to accept that fact just to use the Internet. Moderators do not exist to prune and preen social media to make it more comfortable for people. We remind people to follow the rules and act upon those who do not. If you’re not breaking the rules then we’re not going to “interact” because we have our own lives and our own posts we are interested in.

    • @TurboDiesel@lemmy.world
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      3 months ago

      imposing moderator will on community

      Rich, coming from the mod that banned me because I called him out on a shitty joke.

      • Legate Damar
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        03 months ago

        Stamets is the worst kind of power user. Spams garbage everywhere, argues with everyone. Fragile as glass.

        • @TurboDiesel@lemmy.world
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          23 months ago

          Ok honestly thank you for that. I kind of gathered that from his pretty much only shitposting and attitude in his comments. Idk why but being banned because of him really bugged me.

          • Legate Damar
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            03 months ago

            Yeah you’re not crazy. He is provocative and cries transphobia when called out for it. Then deletes the comments that make him look bad.

      • Stamets
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        -53 months ago

        I don’t remember you but the modlog says you were banned for homophobic comments. So I’m gonna go ahead and say that nah, you weren’t banned for calling someone out on a joke 👍

        • @TurboDiesel@lemmy.world
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          3 months ago

          You posted a misogynistic meme, I said “i thought we left that in 2023,” and apparently you didn’t like that so you called me a bigot and banned me. None of what I said was homophobic or bigoted. I just didn’t like your meme because it seemed like the millionth time one of us has made an “ew women” joke and it’s tired and shitty to women. So you said I’m homophobic and banned me then told me to fuck off basically.👎 Which cut me off from participating in the largest LGBTQ+ safe space on Lemmy. So yeah.

          • Stamets
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            3 months ago

            …riiiiiight. Or, and this is way more likely, you were banned for saying homophobic shit. Which is why it says banned for homophobic content. I’m going to go with the modlog reason 👍 I’ve yet to see someone on Lemmy who had something like “homophobic comments” added to their modlog ban be for no reason whatsoever.

            You were cut out of that safe space because you inherently made it less safe. Of course you’re not allowed in if you’re going to go ahead and make it worse for everyone else. What insane arrogance.

            I’m going to go ahead and go back to forgetting you exist now.

            Edit: oh wait no I do remember you. You kept insisting the meme was misogynistic and then started making generalizations. The meme in question? A dude gagging with the text “When the gay porn shows an ad of a woman masturbating”. Yeah. Not even remotely misogynistic, which other people pointed out to you and why you were downvoted. You then doubled down and made homophobic generalizations. That’s why you were banned. Because you were actively stirring shit and making a safe place inherently less safe by slinging generalizations at the entire community.

            Wouldn’t have remembered if you didn’t double down on that misogyny accusation.

            • @TurboDiesel@lemmy.world
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              3 months ago

              I mean, I have screenshots, but k. Funny how I’m now at least the 3rd person to take issue with you and your temper tantrum mod style.

              And please, show me the comments where I made “homophobic generalizations” and "doubled down. I made literally ONE comment. Was it snarky? Yes, but it was in no way what you’re characterizing it as. It’s also funny how none of that appears in the modlog.

              I’m going to go with the modlog reason

              That you chose to purposely mischaracterize what I said.

              And finally, feel free to check my history, I think you’ll find it pretty damn spotless, which is a hell of a lot more than I can say for you.

              • @schmidtster@lemmy.world
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                3 months ago

                lol they banned me for misinformation for calling theirs out. Deleted all the comments to control the dialogue as well.

                Said I had proof during another exchange (they started) but the comments are deleted, admin came (yay I kinda thought) said the logs are public. Asked the mod (stamets) to show the deleted comments and the admin to show the log, or atleast how to access it, and banned again.

                This place is worse than Reddit for this shit right now, you have an admin lying and hiding stuff for a mod, one they put as moderator for a bunch of communities. Thats not fishy or anything……

                I would love to see this “public mod log” because their doesn’t seem to be a way to see (ALL) deleted comments on the current one.

                I fully expect another ban for this, for no other reason than Stamets is a thin skinned mod who doesn’t have the emotional capability to mod, and antagonizes Lemmy users and uses their mod powers (abuse) to hide it. Its a fucking shame really, admins are letting it happen too, excusing it in a lot of cases.

                • @TurboDiesel@lemmy.world
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                  3 months ago

                  I’ve said my peace, unfortunately not much more I can do. I’ll let him go Lord over his little fiefdoms as he wishes. The whole experience has totally turned me off of Lemmy TBH; I’ve literally never had this kind of issue with a mod here or on Reddit.

    • @MBM@lemmings.world
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      43 months ago

      that’s imposing moderator will on community and its what most of us left reddit to get away from.

      Now I’m curious how common this is, because it’s not at all why I left. I left to get away from Reddit the company. If anything I think Reddit subs tend to be moderated too leniently (which is good for Reddit, because hate is engagement)

      • Stamets
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        03 months ago

        That’s fair. It depends on the communities. Places like Tumblr and Pics had effectively no moderation which left the entire place just a shithole. But then you had places like WorldNews and StarTrek where the mods became specifically known for stirring shit and causing a boatload of problems. Hell, one particular moderator of StarTrek is the reason that so many other communities splintered off.

        For me it was a lot of heavy handed moderation. The lack of moderation was frustrating too, don’t get me wrong, but I guess the communities I was most active in were ones where people were constantly pointing out how the moderators were terrible people.

        • @MBM@lemmings.world
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          23 months ago

          Right, that makes sense. I’ve managed to avoid most of that, except for two cases where a mod grew tired of the sub and decided to ruin it. One of them involved turning it into an unironic Mussolini fan sub so at least there the admins stepped in.

    • @Lifecoach5000@lemmy.world
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      43 months ago

      Are there any app notifications or email options to let yo know about reports? I modestly mod a couple subs and I have never found a way to reliably get report notifications unless I log in through a browser based front end.

    • hauiOPA
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      23 months ago

      Thanks for elaborating. I didnt know the report button is not used often. Good advice. Will do just that.

      As for moderation:

      I‘m a mod myself (both here and on reddit) and I don‘t necessarily agree that its imposing to ask people for civility if a discussion gets heated and kneejerk reactions start popping up. But I‘m thankful for every mod that does the good work and even more so for you openly commenting about it. You’re doing important work.

      Then there is „the internet“ which I think is like the world. If we were in a postapocalyptic hellscape, we‘d have no rules, no communities. Only fight to survive. But we aren’t and we do have communities and rules. Therefore, I‘d say we‘re still responsible for the stuff that happens in our tavern (for lack of a better analogy). Are we to keep the guy in the corner from saying things we dont like? No we shouldn’t, but we definitely should keep him from starting a bar fight.

      This is just my opinion. Feel free to debate me on it. :)

      • @theneverfox@pawb.social
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        22 months ago

        I’d love to debate you on it, but you’re not giving me much to work with.

        Generally, a mod willing to debate me is a mod I want around

        • hauiOPA
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          02 months ago

          Trying my hardest not to make others regret opening the app. Both for my answer and stuff that I could have moderated.

  • @CosmoNova@lemmy.world
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    403 months ago

    Election year in the US and EU while Russia is invading a neighbor and China possibly preparing to do the same. There couldn‘t have been a worse time for LLMs to be so accessible, capable and fairly unregulated. The perfect conditions to make this year the worst for internet content we‘ve ever seen. By a landslide. We will look at the last 10 years and feel nostalgic on how good these years were with their little bot armies, cute clickbait and adorable fake news.

    • hauiOPA
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      33 months ago

      Oh wow. Thats a bleak but very convincing outlook you have painted. Lets pray this doesnt come to pass.

    • @doidera@lemmy.eco.br
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      13 months ago

      Election year in the US and EU while Russia is invading a neighbor and China possibly preparing to do the same.

      Interesting you don’t mention Israel doing a fucking GENOCIDE and the USA supporting it.

      • @GBU_28@lemm.ee
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        3 months ago

        They event, while deplorable, doesn’t really generate new bot flow. The same conservative and Russian style bots are already up and running.

        • @machinin@lemmy.world
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          22 months ago

          You don’t think the US and Israel have an online presence pushing propaganda? I’ve noticed some odd voting patterns on some posts relating to the genocide and recent bombings.

            • @machinin@lemmy.world
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              22 months ago

              Israel ramping up their genocide so significantly and a new US military campaign in the Middle East seems like a great reason to increase propaganda activity. I have a feeling it will only continue to get worse as the conflict spreads.

      • @WidowsFavoriteSon@lemmy.world
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        -73 months ago

        No, the US is not supporting genocide.

        When the Jewish people took the motto NEVER AGAIN what, exactly, did you think that meant? Did you think it would mean “oh please, Sir, don’t hurt us please?”

        Hamas, seeking the elimination of the Jews of Israel decided to find out, and used their own population as shields.

        You reap what you sow.

        • @Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml
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          13 months ago

          Hamas seeks no such thing and your blind acceptance of what is inherently a racist perspective based on Islamophobia is extremely telling.

          • @DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
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            3 months ago

            Yeah, it’d be real fucked up if Hamas, Hezbollah, and the Houthis, all allied and interconnected Iran-backed terrorist groups, had direct calls for jihad and genocide in their charters and mottos, or founder and leader quotes saying they are glad Israel exists because it saves them the trouble of hunting the Jewish diaspora

            OH WAIT

            THEY DO

            If you want to talk about violence, any level of violence, as a legitimate response to colonialism, especially when it enters the ethnic cleansing stage, fair enough, but don’t pretend they’re not genocidal fuckwits themselves with plenty of proof for their intentions.

            If you want to know why Lemmy is full of pissed off people fighting in the comments it’s because half the people who comment on Lemmy have the fact checking ability of a mentally incapable squirrel and they’ll repeat any damn thing they hear.

            • @Bartsbigbugbag@lemmy.ml
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              13 months ago
              1. Hamas affirms that its conflict is with the Zionist project not with the Jews because of their religion. Hamas does not wage a struggle against the Jews because they are Jewish but wages a struggle against the Zionists who occupy Palestine. Yet, it is the Zionists who constantly identify Judaism and the Jews with their own colonial project and illegal entity.
              • @DragonTypeWyvern@literature.cafe
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                3 months ago

                The leadership explicitly refuses to repudiate the old charter that called for genocide, and has directly said they can’t do that politically, or even call it a replacement.

                It shouldn’t be too hard to figure out why, you sure as hell wouldn’t be pretending you don’t understand why MAGA leaders won’t criticize the Confederacy or the KKK.

    • @rglullis@communick.news
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      13 months ago

      The cheaper and easier it gets to produce and distribute content online, the more I am convinced that we will need to start requiring people to put something of actual value at stake to let them join a social network. The sad thing is that, aside from simply charging money for access, there is nothing that I see that could be used but not abused by governments or corporations.

  • mozz
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    253 months ago

    A lot of it depends on the instance. I think there’s a little bit of a smartest bears type of problem going on, with a lot of the bad-faith content coming from just ignorant and abrasive people being sincerely ignorant and abrasive, not anything that’s a bot or a deliberate troll.

    Personally, I’ve done some rounds of unsubscribing from tech and politics subs on lemmy.ml and lemmy.world, and when I’ve done that my amount of toxic content and interactions went way down. I think the prevalence of the exact same thing on the tech subs points to it probably being just a bad-person problem in large proportion, although I’m sure deliberate malfeasance is at the root of some of it also.

    • hauiOPA
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      83 months ago

      I agree that some people just are original jerks. But those still cant roam free in a community. Its like making a bar and knowing that people are getting mugged in the restroom. The bar owner or personnel (even if its a coop) need to intervene.

      • mozz
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        113 months ago

        Well… that’s why I used the smartest bears analogy. I’ve noticed the mods are usually pretty on top of removing content that’s genuinely personally insulting or racist or what have you. But there’s a wide, wide grey area of someone whose post is discussing “the issue” in a technical sense, but just comes at it from a perspective of “here’s why I am right and you are wrong and not only that you’re clearly not smart enough to see my side and I can’t believe I need to explain it to someone again” with 0 interest in learning anything on their side. IDK if it’s reasonable to try to remove comments or ban people for that behavior, but it definitely doesn’t lend itself to a good discussion, and it’s common (probably majority) particularly on lemmy.world and lemmy.ml.

        • hauiOPA
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          33 months ago

          Thats pretty much how I view it as well.

          Being a jerk can have many faces and there are a lot of people right on the edge of getting in trouble but not quite. Those are also the worst people to work with IRL. They fall up the ladder and are usually pretty incompetent.

          If they are repeat offenders, I confront them in the places I mod since I dont want them hollowing out the community by this constant low key abrasion.

          Others who just have a hot temper I leave mostly alone until they really go overboard.

          Thats how I do it and thats what I think is best. Obviously not everyones opinion though.

          • mozz
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            I have a dream of creating a community where people can argue about factual questions and give citations, with an AI moderator that will award points for things that are demonstrated based on solidly factual citations and no points for things that are someone yelling with increasing firm confidence that their opinion is the right one. My dream is (a) the AI moderator could be made to work and (b) it would cause people to lose the “me and my agreeing-people are right about everything by definition” mentality that’s pretty easy to develop in a forum where you can literally say anything at all without getting any feedback aside from other people telling you they agree or disagree.

            Probably my dream on counts (a) and (b) both is incorrect, but it is my dream. In my dream it works.

            • hauiOPA
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              13 months ago

              I find that an insanely good idea. Let me know if it works out. I‘d join.

    • @Black_Gulaman@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      33 months ago

      I browse All and block any subs or users that are toxic. After a month. My All feed is enjoyable and I get the benefit of not missing any new subs or content that pops up.

    • @Blaze@discuss.online
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      13 months ago

      Personally, I’ve done some rounds of unsubscribing from tech and politics subs on lemmy.ml and lemmy.world, and when I’ve done that my amount of toxic content and interactions went way down.

      Maybe that’s a recommendation we should make to everyone

  • @echo64@lemmy.world
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    163 months ago

    People here are blaming politics. I don’t think that’s it. The quality of comments and discussion here has taken a massive nosedive for the past four months or so, no matter what the topic is.

    I think it’s pretty simple, the terrible won. Everyone who wants good quality discussion left quickly when people started to act terrible. They didn’t come back. So now we’ve created the toxic enabling environment that is enabling it hard today.

    You can fix it with moderation, but that’s a lot of work, and people get really angry.

    I’m pretty close to just cutting my losses on lemmy. It’s heading in the same direction as reddit but with less moderation, and simply because it’s smaller, the awfulness is more visible.

    • @rglullis@communick.news
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      73 months ago

      Everyone who wants good quality discussion left quickly when people started to act terrible.

      That, and the fact that simply there isn’t enough good discussion to begin with. This community kind of has movement because it’s a meta-topic, but for everything else it’s mostly "let’s pretend we are superior than redditors because we found our way here and “let’s pretend we are not in Reddit for all the other niche communities that we are still interested.”

      I think the biggest mistake in the execution of the protests is the effort was spread around “going dark” for as many subreddits as possible. It would be a lot more effective if we got one big-ish niche and told them “let’s focus all our efforts to get you out of Reddit and migrate completely to any other alternative.” Go for something completely random but with commercial interest, like /r/sneakers, and if a moderate success of getting 15% of the user base to Lemmy would translate into 500k signups.

      • @Blaze@discuss.online
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        23 months ago

        That, and the fact that simply there isn’t enough good discussion to begin with. This community kind of has movement because it’s a meta-topic, but for everything else it’s mostly "let’s pretend we are superior than redditors because we found our way here and “let’s pretend we are not in Reddit for all the other niche communities that we are still interested.”

        That’s a real issue. Hopefully it will get better over time, but sometimes at the moment it feels like shouting into the void.